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Rayman4449
Engineer
USA
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 Posted - 22 Dec 2007 : 17:19:36
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(Just posted this on the Aristocraft forums)
I just found the solution to at least one issue that sometimes causes the SD-45 motorblock to run choppy and clunky sounding.
The U shaped power transfer strips that route power from the top circuit board to the + and - motor power leads on the motors can create downward pressure on the power lead side of the motors. This causes a binding when the motor block is screwed up secure against the truck frame and above circuit board. I had one motorblock that was running choppy and finally after hours and hours of experimenting I found that if I installed the motor block in the engine (and took the bottom cover plate off) and used a flat blade solder tip and melted the solder on the motor lead ends while pushing down one the motor lead with the soldering iron I found the motors actually moved down into proper position.(showing they were pushed out of alignment) I repeated this on all four motor power leads.
Afterwards, the motor block ran PERFECTLY smooth and silent!
I really think that this is the real cause with alot of the motor blocks that aren't running smoothly that folks are sending in for so long.
So if you have one, try this trick and see if it works. It's fixed two engines already!
Enjoy.
Raymond
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Need a Non-MTH engine equipped with DCS Protosound 2? I can help.
 Raymond - Gardner, KS
http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com |
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Rayman4449
Engineer
USA
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Posted - 22 Dec 2007 : 18:21:46
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| Just tried it on a third engine and it's not quite as quiet as the others so this may not be the 'end all' for all situations but it's definately something to try. |
Need a Non-MTH engine equipped with DCS Protosound 2? I can help.
Raymond - Gardner, KS
http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com
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NTCGRR
Engineer
1st Class Member
USA
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Posted - 22 Dec 2007 : 18:50:27
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I don't remember any of my locos (but for the first run SD45s) having any motor issues.
Ray, you need to go outdoors and make snow angels. |
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Paul Burch
Engineer
1st Class Member
USA
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Posted - 23 Dec 2007 : 08:57:43
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Raymond,
Anyway you could post a photo or two of your fix? How old are the motor blocks? New release or older blocks? |
Paul Burch,Gig Harbor WA.
Sierra Cascade & Pacific R.R.
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Rayman4449
Engineer
USA
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Posted - 23 Dec 2007 : 11:42:54
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I will take some pics on the next engine I'm working on lowering.
I would imagine these are classified as new release but I don't know how I would know. They have so far been on my Norfolk Southern Dash-9s. It's important to note that what I'm talking about as far as running rough is only noticeable at very slow speeds, it's not to the severity were the engine is lurching as in some of the very first Dash-9s that hit the shelves. (like my first ATSF Dash-9 which was horrible) In the engine this fixed the problem it was probably a 5 or so on a scale from 1 to 10. 10 being the worst.
Based on the percentage (around 50 percent) of my NS motor blocks running a little rough I would have to conclude that many just don't notice that they are. With my conversions of engines to MTH DCS, I can run them at very slow speeds and the DCS system tries and can maintain that speed (say 1 Scale MPH). It is at those very slow speeds that severity of a problem really shows itself. When I ran these engines under straight track power (much less precise) there was only one engine that I could noticeably see that didn't look smooth. Most people probably aren't this detailed(which is ok), but I am.
One thing I could always tell on those blocks after many hours of looking at them was that there was an alignment problem that was causing it, but in many cases I just couldn't put my finger on it. After finding this, it makes sense. If you assemble the block and solder the motor leads BEFORE you install it in the engine AND you don't press down on those U power transfer strips while soldering, they will push down on the motors getting them out of alignment and causing a bind. I mean it really makes sense now. The entire driveline is made so it should be able to compensate for minor variances and the block shouldn't ever be that far warped if any to really cause a problem. This is the one variable that can really introduce a serious misalignment.
Here is an example of how my Dash-9 ran. Bob Brashear was good enough to video them and post them in this link. http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20962&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=dash,gear
I saved the video files in case they were ever deleted as they appear to be now.
Bob's videos:(RIGHT CLICK AND SAVE AS THE FILES TO YOUR COMPUTER BEFORE YOU TRY TO RUN)
www.rayman4449.dynip.com/Dash9_Driveby_Slow_Speed_Lurching2.mpeg
www.rayman4449.dynip.com/Dash9_Assembled_3.mpeg
When looking at the possible causes more, it's very unlikely a gearbox itself would be the cause as they are pretty much idiot proof unless they instealled really messed up gears which I doubt the factory would do. I think most of these smoothness issues are caused by the divetrain being out of alightment.
Your mileage may vary of course.
Raymond
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Need a Non-MTH engine equipped with DCS Protosound 2? I can help.
Raymond - Gardner, KS
http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com
Edited by - Rayman4449 on 23 Dec 2007 12:28:08 |
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Rayman4449
Engineer
USA
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Posted - 23 Dec 2007 : 12:30:49
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(Just posted this on the Aristocraft.com forums)
If someone wants to try this fix, flip the engine upside down and only remove the bottom shell casing of the motor block. DO NOT remove the motor block from the engine. (note, mine in the photos below is out of the engine, but is still installed in the truck frame and is solid against the circuit board above which is the key to all this.)
Simply use the soldering iron with this type of tip till you soften the solder on each terminal. Be sure to apply some pressure down on the tab of motor block power lead to push it back into place.
Here is what a Dahs-9 motor looks like. Note the power leads on the end. This is what you need to heat and will be pushing down on.
Thanks for sharing your experiences Ron. That lends more evidence that this may in fact be the root issue for any that don't run perfectly smooth. |
Need a Non-MTH engine equipped with DCS Protosound 2? I can help.
Raymond - Gardner, KS
http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com
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aceinsp
Foreman
USA
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Posted - 23 Dec 2007 : 12:36:27
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| I have an early SD45 and also two -9s will look into this as they do run a tad ragged at slower speeds using the DCC. Later RJD |
RJD President and Chief Engr Dakota & Southern RR
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Art
Engineer
1st Class Member
USA
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Posted - 23 Dec 2007 : 15:38:23
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I had 3-SD45's that sounded like a trash compactor in action. I finally got rid of them as they just sat on the deadline. I sure took a loss in that transaction but they were an embrassment when they were run. I stay away from the Dash 9 as I don't like the way the trucks look .... but do love the E8/9's. I wish that I had known about this fix as I did like the look of the SD45.
Art |
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Rayman4449
Engineer
USA
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Dash-9 / SD-45 motor block running rough(solution!
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