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RC/Battery Operations

LGB #50 + battery R/C and sound. Update.

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Engineer

Australia

Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 18:29:14

I have long desired an LGB #50 diesel switcher.
They are a particularly smooth running model. Ideal for a demonstrator loco to show off my RCS equipment.

The following is how I went about fitting all of the equipment under the hood.
Naturally I am using RCS R/C but any brand of R/C that fits could be used.
For now I will be using a Dallee Alco diesel sound until Sierra comes out with a version that is closer to the Caterpillar prime mover used in the real #50.
I will be fitting 14.4 volts of 900 mah AAA Nimh cells made up into a special pack to fit the available space. Although the run time will be limited compared to 2,500 mah AA cells it will be sufficient as the loco is after all a switcher. Also, by using my way of wiring up a DPDT switch and DC jack I can plug in auxilliary batteries at either end of the loco. Plugging them aux pack in automatically disconnects the on board batteries and saves them for yard switching.

I acquired my # 50 in pieces in a trade. Saved me disassembling it.

The first thing I did was ask master machinist Gordon Watson if he would kindly mill out the lead weights at either end so that I could mount the charge jacks in the ends of the frames.

The first slots Gordon milled out were in the wrong place. My fault. After rethinking how I wanted to do it I settled on this method of mounting the wiring.
I tack glued the wires in place along one side of the frame and soldered them to the DPDT switch which was glued in place on the frame in the middle and reinforced with small styrene pieces.

The wires were fed up through a Ľ" hole in the footplate to inside the hood.
I mounted the two jacks in the end plates with VERY careful applications of cyanoacrylate. You absolutely must not let capilliary action take glue into the jack itself.
I drilled a suitable hole in the actual external end plate so that it is removable for fitting over the Kadees.

Gordon also milled out the back of the plastic radiator grille for me. A very tricky machining job. I trimmed up the milling with a sharp Xacto knife. Sorry about the picture quality.

I fabricated a new styrene plate and drilled holes to let the sound out and covered the plate with brass gauze.

I painted the brass gauze. Not a smart idea. I should have just used Blacken-It. More apologies on pic quality.

The speaker assembly was secured to the grille frame with silicone adhesive and snapped into place in the hood.

This underneath view shows the ON-OFF switch, Programming code switch and how I mounted the Kadees. I mounted each Kadee on a brass strip using 8 BA nuts and bolts. The brass strip was secured the old coupler mount with a regular LGB screw. I got lucky. The Kadees end up at exactly the correct height.

The end plates were re-installed and clearly show how the jack is accessible through the hole in the external end plate.

The battery pack finally showed up on Friday so I was able to complete the project.

Here is how I mounted the RF-CHK pcb. This is not essential but is very effective at reducing motor "Noise" RF interference if gaining access to the motor to suppress with .1µf mono caps proves to be difficult. It goes in line between the Motor Driver and the motor.
I installed a Polyswitch® fuse in the battery + lead and sat it down in the "well" in front of the motor block.
Disregard where the RF-RX is mounted. I had originally intended running the RF-RX antenna down to the track but changed my mind.

Instead, I mounted the RF-RX up in the hood right behind the speaker. The antenna is tacked with hot glue to inside the top of the hood. If the range is not adequate I will redo the antenna location and likely attach it to the metal handrails on top of the hood.
After some in field testing yesterday I decided the range with the antenna shown is quite adequate.
I get 40' with the loco on the ground and 60'- 80' when the loco is off the ground. Good enough for the switching duties the #50 was designed for.

The battery pack is made up of 12 x 800 mah NiMh AAA cells built professionally by my local battery supplier. They are not cheap but will provide a reasonable run time for yard switching work.
I built up a styrene battery support to the decking. I used silicone adhesive to mount the battery pack on the styrene support and the coils of the RF-CHK pcb.
I also used silicone adhesive to glue the Dallee sound system to the side of the battery pack.
The small pcb right in the front is a relay pcb that reverses the polarity of the constant valtage to power the LGB lights. It saves rewiring the lights as they are 5 volt and would require a fabricated 5 volt regulator supply anyway.

The RCS ELITE-3 Motor Driver was likewise glued to the side of the battery pack.

It was all a tight fit but it does fit OK.
The hood is a wriggle fit down over the various wires. I was very carefull to make sure no wires ended up across the screw holes.

Here is #50 all ready to take up demonstration duties at the next train show RCS will be attending on March 12 - 14.

If anyone has a specific question re this installation please feel free to contact me off line.
Gushing praise is always welcome.

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Edited by - on 12 Aug 2005 22:23:33

Engineer

1st Class Member

USA

Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 18:38:00

Looking good Tony. Thanks for sharing.

Engineer

1st Class Member

USA

Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 20:37:07

Tony, your so good at this, have you ever thought of going into busness? I bet you'd get rich..

Engineer

Australia

Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 20:58:31

Just who is that funny man?

Engineer

1st Class Member

USA

Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 21:07:57

Tony,
A neat, quality install.
Thanks for sharing.

Conductor

USA

Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 23:25:27

Thanks, Tony...I'm just about to see about taking apart my new Ice Cream diesel...same unit, disgusting paint job.

I prob'ly need to talk to TOC about taking advantage of your rebate! 3-amp unit ought to be plenty for this little locomotive, right?

Conductor

1st Class Member

USA

Posted - 27 Feb 2005 : 08:10:25

Tony, Wow!

What a great installation! Seeing this really is possible has moved my own #50 conversion hopes forward a notch. Great job!

TOC, you taking notes?

Dawg

Conductor

USA

Posted - 28 Feb 2005 : 16:50:24

Tony, is it possible to run the lighting outputs from the throttle board directly to whatever "constant lighting" circuit the LGB locomotive came with?

Engineer

Australia

Posted - 28 Feb 2005 : 17:03:55

Tim,
Anything is possible if you have the time and energy.

It would require extensive rewiring of the cab light and both headlights. That requires a 5 volt supply or replacing the 5 volt bulbs with higher voltage versions. You could of course use LED's.

I took the easy way out.
I didn't touch the LGB wiring and just fed what were the track pick ups with traction battery voltage. The polarity of which is determined by the relay the coil of which is driven by the reverse lighting function on the ELITE-3 pcb.
The cab light stays on full brightness and the headlights, also at full brightness, reverse according to the direction of travel.

Conductor

USA

Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 23:42:21

Tony, hope you don't mind, but I'm going to add some content to this topic. I recently purchased the "Ice Cream" version of this same locomotive, and I've got a few issues and questions:

First off, what the heck is this? Is it some sort of DCC decoder? If not, it sure seems complicated just to manage power pickup and constant-intensity directional lights . I assume I'm going to remove the PCB and use as much of the remaining wiring as I need to.

Second, is there any reason NOT to remove all this track-power pick-up stuff?

Third, why did you choose AAA-size cells? It doesn't look all that difficult to fit a dozen AA-sized cells in the hood:

I'm just kiddin' with this one, Tony. I might install AA-sized cells, but this will likely make it impossible to install sound. There just isn't enough room left.

Engineer

Australia

Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:52:36

Hi Tim.

Looks like a decoder to me.
Mine # 50 is an old one so it had nothing like that. I'd pull it out. I reckon a buyer could be found soon enough. The motor will run bettter when powered by battery R/C.
My guess is the lighting is 5 volts so you you will need a 5 volt supply to run them unless you replace the bulbs with higher voltage versions. Then you can run them off the throttle lighting outputs.

I would leave at least the strips in the chassis case. They hold the brass rod connector shafts in place so the push on connectors can still be used. The plungers and wipers can come out.

I doubt there will be any room under the hood for AA cells the R/C and a sound system. I looked at it myself and was forced to go with the AAA's. I have installed aux-batt/charge jacks either end. So if I want to extend run time I can by simply plugging in a back up battery pack.
However I will be investigating a new range of LiPoly batteries that might be ideal for our use. They have built in electronic protection and can be ordered in any configuration with a matching charger.

Conductor

1st Class Member

USA

Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 08:14:17

I just delivered(it was finished a few weeks ago) the same LGB number 50 with 1800 mah AA NIMH cells in the hood. Should run for about three hours. I used an RCS EVO-3f throttle, also in the hood area. Fitment was quite easy. The Phoenix sound and 2 inch speaker went up in the roof, under a custom cut piece of styrene. Phoenix has sound function, including the programming port if the owner wants to make changes. Directional and cab lighting were retained. Nothing is visible in the cab. This is a great project and a very good runner Tim.

Engineer

USA

Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 10:18:44

First, excellant installation Tony.
Second, I agree, you should do this for a living. Third, has there ever been a bad running LGB unit?

Conductor

USA

Posted - 21 May 2005 : 22:33:22

An update...but due to the fact that I'm recovering from sinus surgery, I really don't feel like typing a lot. I'll let the pictures do the talking. I will say that in order to get the battery pack to fit, I had to painstakingly remove all the external packaging (shrink wrap and cardstock end covers, plus lots of clear adhesive/caulk). Let's just say this if the battery pack had a warranty when I received it from TOC, it doesn't anymore!

[Following a chat with Dave Goodson today, I thought I would add a note that NO, I do not intend to mount the receiver and throttle boards so that they are touching, as they are here. There is plenty of room to mount them apart from one-another.]

Edited by - on 22 May 2005 17:30:29

Engineer

Australia

Posted - 12 Aug 2005 : 22:22:15

Ever since I did this installation the # 50 has not had very good range.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the range is poor because of the way I mounted the receiver right onto the magnet of the speaker.

I could not mount an Azarr antenna under the hood.

I thought it was about time I found a way of improving the range.
here is what I did.
The receiver wiring was fed up between the cab front and the interior panel.

This allowed the receiver and antenna to be mounted up in the roof.
Although the Azarr antennas are supposed to be spread out in a straight line this is simply not possible. So the thin yellow antenna wire was glued in place with small dabs of hot glue around the perimeter of the roof lip inside the cab.

This afternoon I will be able to test range and will post the results as soon as possible.

Range test results.

From around 30' - 40' the range has improved to over 150'.
This is a quite dramatic increase.
I think it was combination of both mods.
I know when making changes one should take one step at a time. Unfortunately I was not in a position to make two lengthy round trips to test so I moved the RX and installed an Azarr antenna at the same time.
In future I will keep the receiver and antenna away from the magnetic field of the speaker and batteries, as doing just that with a regular wire antenna in my Hartland Mack achieved over 100'.

Edited by - on 13 Aug 2005 00:14:43

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