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RCS into 2 x SD40-2's.

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Engineer

Australia

Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 22:02:58

I have recently completed an RCS installation into 2 x SD40-2'.

Although usually straightforward this particular installation was complicated a bit by the owner wanting to have both units powered with sound. My brief was just one throttle for both units as they will be permanently coupled together. There was also to be just one Sierra sound unit but with speakers in both units.
I needed to design the installation so that both units held batteries and the main unit could be run on its own if needed.

Deciding how to fit batteries was the most difficult part.
I usually remove smoke units from battery installations and this I did. No other changes were made to the locos other than some plastic removal from inside the hoods to clear the throttle.
I have used two 19.2 volt 2,300mah "AA" NiMh packs in each loco.
They are merged with 3 amp Polyswitch fuses and 6 amp diodes on each pack so there is no feedback. The loco's have a total of 9.2 ampere hours available. Each pack is charged individually via jacks either side of the fuel tank.
Here is the circuit for the merge unit.

The trailing unit batteries are set up identically and both OUTputs are mixed before the total output is switched and fused for 10 amps.

So that I can still get at the truck screws for possible truck removal I made up some thin plywood "trays" to which I glued the packs with silicone adhesive. (I would have used thick styrene but I did not have any and my local hobby shop was out of stock). Just to make sure I also wrapped a long cable tie around them. The "trays" are mounted on �" stand offs and secured with 20mm long 3mm screws and nuts.
The little pcb sitting on top of the battery pack is a small pcb I make that has two RF choke suppressors and a pair of .1�f caps. I use one pcb for each motor block and this generally provides for good motor suppression.

The front battery pack is glued to the moulded plastic obtrusions and a spacer I made out of styrene.
The throttle is my new 10 amp ELITE unit that is now available.
The ELITE-10 has an on board 10 amp auto fuse but for in loco installations I also have available a 10 amp auto reset binary metal fuse that is a simple plug in device.

I left the USA pcb's as they are and feed a constant traction voltage to them via a small relay. The polarity of this constant voltage is governed by the rear light output. This system works really well and simplifies installation a lot.
I guess the pic show a lot of wiring but there is not really all that much.

The sound system, battery merge pcb, fusing and charge jacks (which are almost invisible when painted), are all in the fuel tank. There is plenty of room.
Here is an overall view of the chassis.

The only things I mounted in the shell are the RF receiver part and the small pcb that has the programming DIP switches which are accessible through the smoke stack.

I hope this has been of interest and if anyone has any questions on specific parts please let me know.

Editing note. I have redone the drawing to include how to wire the charge jacks.

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Edited by - on 09 Jun 2004 00:10:44

Engineer

USA

Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 22:18:37

Fascinating. You sir are the master.

Engineer

USA

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 04:53:53

tony
thanks a lot great installation great looking job done a+++ and great pics.

Railway Exec (Moderator)

1st Class Member

Canada

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 05:16:37

Tony

Very interesting installation.

I am a bit confused - early in the post you said you used a battery pack in each loco while your pic seems to show both packs in the same loco ...

Given the very powerful setup in the Aristo Dash 9 (and no doubt the upcoming USAT SD70) there would seem to be some value in having dummy units permanently coupled to make the installation of massive battery pack possible.

Regards ... Doug

Engineer

1st Class Member

USA

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 05:36:33

Hi Tony,
Nice jpegs.

9.2 aH available, but 2 engines so it's 4.6 ah per engine. 90 min of run time? Perhaps 120 min?
You charge each battery via its own jack so you use 4 battery chargers or do you use one 4 times?

Engineer

1st Class Member

USA

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 10:32:14

I put 2 4.5 amp hour battey packs and sound in an SD-40. It's not as pretty as Tony's because the packs are bigger. I also got 2 packs and sound into a GP-9. It's REAL full.

The 2 packs are only 14.4 volts but the give me a total of 9 amp hours in each engine.

Engineer

USA

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 12:33:24

bill
how much run time does that give you?

Engineer

Australia

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 17:13:20

Hi Doug.

quote:
I am a bit confused - early in the post you said you used a battery pack in each loco while your pic seems to show both packs in the same loco ...

This should provide you with an answer.

quote:
I have used two 19.2 volt 2,300mah "AA" NiMh packs in each loco.

Bill,
The way I did the installation was to keep it as simple as possible. I did not want to have to make too many cuts to the body to get everything in.
I have yet to encounter the -9. Having had experience with a number of less than satisfactory SD45's I think I will pass on the -9 until I am convinced the gearbox/truck design and QC problems left over from the SD45 trucks have been solved.
BTW I don't like the cock-a-mamy way that USA have designed the SD40-2 trucks either. I believe the articulated gearbox idea only works if the flanges are deep like "0" scale Hi-Rail stuff.
Unlike the PA-B set I did for the same owner which had two of the four articulated gearbox mountings broken, all four trucks on the SD40-2's were just fine.

Larry,
As you are no doubt aware, although NiCd and NiMh batteries can be discharged in parallel with suitable "merging" diodes they MUST NOT be charged in parallel.
You can charge the batteries one pack at a time or all four together if you have enough chargers.

Engineer

1st Class Member

USA

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 18:54:56

Tony,

I agree with the funny truck design in USAs 3 axle trucks. My GP-9 is just fine. It's very simple and runs smoothly.

As for how long the 9 amp hour batteries run, I don't know. I haven't run them continuously in one day to run them down.

Engineer

1st Class Member

USA

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 19:06:15

I'm curious. To do a pair of engines like this, what does it cost? Could someone give me a breakdown for batteries, receiver, controller, transmitter, charger, relays,etc.

Engineer

Australia

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 19:51:45

Bill,
I have converted dozens of two axle truck USA Trains locos up to, but not including, the GP30. Almost every one of them had at least one cracked axle. Once I fixed the axles they all ran very smoothly indeed.
From the GP30 onwards I believe USA Trains are using a revised version of knurling on the metal axle so that when pressed home into the plastic shaft they do not crack the plastic any more.
None of them run as smoothly as the latest version RS3's I have converted. The RS3 is close to the smoothest runner apart from the Bachmann "Dizzie", which is superb, but alas somewhat of an orphan.

Bob,
I have not yet worked out what the final cost is to my customer but suffice to say he considered whatever it was it would still be cheaper than having to bond EVERY joint and provide a control system that would require on going laborious maintenance on the large outdoor RR he is building on a 3 acre property.
I will post an approximate cost when I can. It is of course governed by the cost in the USA of items over which I have no control such as the batteries. Exported from Australia batteries get very expensive.

Conductor

USA

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 21:19:32

Tony,

You pro you!

Alan

Engineer

Australia

Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 00:23:54

For those that may be interested in merging multiple batt packs in a loco, I have changed the drawing in the first post to show to wire up charge jacks mounted in fuel tank.
This circuit will work with any brand of R/C and merges two equal battery packs so that they can be charged separately but discharged in parallel.
Clever little jiggers the charge jacks.
A 3 amp Polyswitch protects each battery pack. This will limit the maximum load on each battery pack to 3 amps.

If any interest is shown I could be persuaded to get a run made as a kit as it is the sort of thing most people could build without too much trouble.

Engineer

USA

Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 05:21:01

bill
whats your longest run to date?

Brakeman

Canada

Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 14:03:32

Thx for posting the article !! Very helpful to me...

Is there a Canadian retailer of the RCS components ??

Trevor in Calgary

Engineer

Australia

Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 17:19:16

Hello Trevor.

My pleasure.
I try and post articles that are applicable to any brand of R/C not just RCS.

I sell quite a bit of RCS in Canada but I do not have any RCS authorised dealers there.
Anyone interested in RCS R/C can obtain product direct from me or via any of my USA dealers and distributors.

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